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For All Abilities

Jun 29, 2020

For All Abilities – The Podcast: A High Acheivier with ADHD with De’Nicea Hilton

In this episode, I interview Dr. De’Nicea Hilton. She is a Doctor of Oriental Medicine and creates playful, healing spaces for women. We had a fun, joy filled discussion about life and ADHD. We discuss the challenge of her very unusual diagnosis of ADHD as an adult while working in an adjacent field! We also discussed how she has navigated school and work with her unique brain.
To connect with De’Nicea, please go to her website, follow her on LinkedIn (De’Nicea Hilton) and on Instagram at DeniceaHilton.
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Please follow me on Instagram @forallabilities, LinkedIn (Betsy Furler) and on Facebook (For All Abilities). Go to our website for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism.
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Full Transcription by

Betsy Furler 0:25
Hi, everybody. Welcome back to for all abilities the podcast. I am so excited that you're here to hear about another professional who is living and thriving and working with neuro diversity. Today we have Denise sia here with us and Denise, could you please introduce yourself to our audience?

De’Nicea Hilton 0:49
Yes. Hey, Betsy, thank you so much for having me on your show. I'm so excited because I've not actually talked openly about this. Awesome Yeah, so I'm denisa Hilton, Doctor of Oriental medicine and holistic play activator. So I am in this space where I create these playful healing spaces, typically for women, so that they can embrace, embody and express their perfect, authentic selves.

Betsy Furler 1:22
That's awesome. So we'll have to talk more about that as we get on with the show. But I first I want to tell us what you were like as a little girl and what was school like kind of in those early years elementary school years?

De’Nicea Hilton 1:36
So let me think Let me think I was definitely one of those kids that

I got along with other kids definitely got along with other kids. I would say that I was sensitive in a way that my mom would tell me as an adult, like how some things I might get sad over or I might have wanted. I do Be curious, asking questions, things like that. I definitely was also the one who took her time doing things and take my time doing things and then also exploring, um, there came a time when I was like a third think was third grade, second third grade, where it drew their attention to like me talking in class. And then who I thought I was just having a chat with, I later learned was a psychologist

was testing me. And then that's when they found out that I was a perfectionist, and they are like, She's also gifted and advanced. And so basically, she's bored.

So like, that's when they learned, okay, they my parents and my teachers, like Alright, well basically that's what it is. And so we gotta like step it up a notch. So my classes changed. So that was I was with I was getting a curriculum that was quote unquote tougher so that I would stay engaged. My mom totally like through me and some other activities and whatnot. I read a lot like reading was one of the things I love doing. And I still have some of my books from when I was little too.

Betsy Furler 3:22
So were you a good student? Like were you making good grades?

De’Nicea Hilton 3:27
Yeah, I totally was it was just what was causing my mom's attention was that it was taking me forever to do homework or sometimes like classwork. If I was the one who would be like one of the last to be done. And so that's where my mom was, you know, asking them like, what kind of work are y'all giving these kids because it's taking so long, but I would just be so engrossed in it. And I do recall, there are times and I'm like this even now and I have to leave catch myself when I'm doing it. Um, but like even just, you know, you're you're learning, you're in math. And then you're learning all like division and the addition and everything I was the one that I would seriously take my time writing so that all the numbers were lined up that the equal line was like perfectly online with a notebook paper.

Unknown Speaker 4:25

De’Nicea Hilton 4:28
yeah. And so like if it was thrown off,

like I was it for some reason, I think like, Oh, well, then my back would be off if, if they're not all perfectly lined up. And so I can see where I do that now. Even just drafting notes and, and whatnot, how I might go into that space of totally critiquing how I'm writing and then I'll have to, like, snap out of it, you know?

Betsy Furler 4:53
Yeah. And that can really derail us from getting anything done from our productivity. By doing that, yeah, yeah. So as you went on in school, so then you were in the gifted program and what Where did you grow up? What area of the country? Us? I guess I should start with that.

De’Nicea Hilton 5:11
Yeah, I'm in the US in the Tampa Bay, Florida area.

Unknown Speaker 5:16
Where you're still are right. Yeah.

Betsy Furler 5:19
And so as you, you know, went through elementary school and then middle and high school. How did I get in exchange for you at all? Or do Where did you still like, excel at academics?

De’Nicea Hilton 5:32
Yeah, I still. It just got, I don't want to say it got harder because it wasn't really I mean, my mom was on top of it. She was very active in our academics. So she made sure that we were I was in the programs and the classes that I that I would Excel and I didn't really dip as in grades or anything. Like that, you know, a time I really dipped was in behavior in one class

for talking.

But that was pretty much it. Then I went into a magnet. Like at that time, there was only magnet schools. And then like the IB program, which many would know as the International Baccalaureate program. It wasn't available in middle school. So I ended up being accepted into the program and joining that program in high school. So pretty much from the time that I was tested and they switched over my classes. I was always in the classes that were going to challenge that and my mom made sure that I was and I just stayed on top of it. And you know, with all the projects and whatnot in middle school, I remember I remember one of my teachers even then I asked to be in she offered to that I would come into a different went to her classes because the class that I was slated for was a little bit too easy for me. And it was a language class. So then I would end up going to another one of her classes. So even then I was a little bit more advanced and in that regard, too, so I think like I just kind of in started taking on the like, is this easy way? Is there something else that I could do like because that's that's when I started channeling I guess what, what now I would say is boredom. Is is asking if there was anything more of right

Betsy Furler 7:33
yeah. So you just like continually kind of challenged yourself to keep yourself from being bored and it sounds like you when you were young, or maybe your mom helped you with this. You were fairly organized.

Unknown Speaker 7:46
I yeah, like

De’Nicea Hilton 7:49
I really was actually not I think about it like some Well, well, sometimes depending on who it was. They might look at my room and be like what in the world is going is like otic mess, like

you couldn't really like you couldn't be dirty like we just didn't and I wasn't really like that either. But I could see that there are times like, oh, and I got my first desk. I'm trying to organize my desk and put that in. Like, will this organization work for me? Like, I don't know. Like I just keep trying all these different things and even now Yeah, like

I've it's, it has its moments and spots of very clear and then other times there's a pile or a few that

Betsy Furler 8:39
so and then you went to college, obviously. And it did not go well academically. I guess I should, I guess. I'm glad for you. Well, I don't want to get your way out of order. But I want you to I do want you to tell the audience about your diagnosis because you have what your diagnosis is a little bit different. So, tell us what happened. You know what happened next? And obviously you were already working when you got the diagnosis. But anyway, go on with your story.

De’Nicea Hilton 9:08
Yeah, um, did you want me to go into college? Or you want me to go?

Betsy Furler 9:12
Yeah, yeah, just Yeah. Tell us how college was.

De’Nicea Hilton 9:15
Yeah. Um, so I went to undergrad and I will now that we're talking about it, it's it's really making me think right like, and try to remember a lot of things. Um, during that time, I want to say that now I can appreciate that structure that I actually had that I didn't realize was structure. So I did struggle a little bit in college. Because there was just so much going on, where I was like, Oh, I want to go and do this like and just the different types of people that I met the different activities, the different organizations ended up like prioritizing those and then like I'm going to work now. So a lot of those things that became available is like, Oh, well, school stuff can kind of go by the wayside. And then what I learned towards the end, though, was that I realized just how much it is that I can work in spurts. So one of the tricks was that I learned going to summer school was the best thing for me. Because the classes were typically shorter, like if they were summer a or summer B, for those who may not know, so then it'll be like, instead of the full, like 1516 weeks, you go to classes for like seven weeks, eight weeks. And so then but your class frequency so going into class more often, actually, I realized helped me because it was like I'm going to I may be going to class more often during the week versus like the once or twice a week. During a fall or spring semester, but I mean, it was like the assignments were even like quicker to do, I could just go in there I'm so super focused. And because it was just that short time period and then boom, boom, boom, I'm out. And like, I remember one of my college advisors because I had to get permission to even take more credits during the semester than was actually allowed. Because I just told him I said, I'm just doing better in the summer so I want to maximize how many credits I can take over the summer, just so that I would basically be taking, taking advantage of how it is that I best work and also the timeframe like the time of the year, and this all is something that even now isn't talking about it is reflective of how I work now and like work work. I graduated and I started working on an internship and Then I went to grad school. And during grad school, I mean, that was a program where it was straight through, like, you could have taken breaks, but it was really designed for you to go straight through. And so we went for like 15 weeks, take two weeks off, and then you just came back and you kept going. It was very rigorous. And that it was, I mean, you were there all the time. So I think that even helped me because it was so physically I'm there. And then the classes tended to be more often as well. And then like with the assignments, so I learned that the more leeway I have in things, then it might take me longer to do it. Procrastination, and then all of a sudden, I would have created a way that I would work in spurts. So that's when I'd say okay, well, this is due so I'm just going to do this like within four or five days for us to

Betsy Furler 12:56
that's exactly how I am I'm actually not diagnosed with it. The type of neuro diversity but I feel more ADHD day as the days go by, especially with the stay at home order. But it's interesting that you say that about procrastination because I'm the same way and the busier I am, the more organized and productive I am by far. And then my son, my son, he's in college is the same way and he's taking I don't remember how many he's taking a lot of hours for summer school, like I think, maybe 15. And over to summer, you know, over us, you know, half of them are a and half of them are beets. Yeah, term. And I'm like, oh, my goodness, it's so much and he's like, no, I can do it. And I think he's like you were, he actually asked me where we actually do better when we're busier. And, and the timelines are a little bit shorter. So you know, because we aren't we can work productively and we're, you know, smart and quick learners and when we can just get the get the content in and out. Done, it actually works better than than having a prolonged period of time that you can, you can procrastinate over.

De’Nicea Hilton 14:09
Yeah, well, and you know what else to I noticed and I don't know if you're if if you were like this or your son's like this. I'm like, so I enjoy volunteering, right? And I ended up learning that, and especially if it's not, then I'm flaky. What it is, is that it actually goes along with the same way that I do I deal with, you know, something to do like projects or when I'm in school, it's actually project based. So like, I realized that I Excel much better when it is projects with these timeframes, like there's a start and an end. And if it's definitely shorter than wonderful, you know, hmm. So like versus the, versus the like, Oh, this you're gonna be here doing this. For so long, it's like, okay, like, if my commitment is like a year or two, and that's looming there, that's fine. But like, if you really want me to, like be of use, man get me in, in the creativity and idea phase. And then basically, I guess, show zoned into that. And then these projects that the time like, goes by so quickly, like, I know, it's already been like a year or two cool, because I would have had all these micro projects

Betsy Furler 15:30
in my bed. That's what I I frequently recommend that for accommodations in the workplace is one, you know, more concrete deadlines for things for people, especially people with ADHD. And then also that kind of that traditional accommodation of extended timeline, you know, or extra time is sometimes actually harmful. For people with ADHD rather than helpful.

De’Nicea Hilton 15:58
I could see that Because if you tell me Oh, well, you got some time, and I do like it.

Unknown Speaker 16:05
Right then you might take it. Yeah,

De’Nicea Hilton 16:09
yeah. But I may not have actually needed it in the beginning.

Unknown Speaker 16:13
Right. It's right. It's right.

De’Nicea Hilton 16:16
Yeah. And I've seen like, I mean, I, I will say like, to really like as an adult like so after, after actually like beginning to work in the, in the workplace, they do my internship. Um, there was, I'll say he's like, my first he was my first CEO, like professional CEO. And this man, like, was amazing in the sense that he was he was just so smart, so very smart. And you could sit in these meetings with him, and he might be very quiet and actually he might end up when he does talk. Like be very Curt into that. Right, like to the point, right? Uh huh. Um, and at first, I was one of those like Dang, like, is he was kind of harsh, like you're, and then I'm going, actually I really wasn't harsh. It was just a huge to the point, right. And then there were all these other little things that he might do. Like he might have something in his hands, and he's playing with it or sometimes even then he would get up and walk into his office because like, sometimes you'd have these meetings and there'd be a conference room that was split by a door that was leading into his office. So even then you might perceive based on his actions, that he's not paying attention, or that he's actually not like engaged in the meeting. But in actuality, I ended up learning and appreciating him doing it because it was really his way of handling his own. Like bouncing his mind possibly bouncing, but he's totally engaged in a meeting and then all of a sudden you He would say something and it'd be like, so profound decisions made. Let's move on. Like, yeah, like you it was like that space to hear people out and whatnot. But then also like what I from that, I even felt encouraged that if that's what I needed to do, then that's what I need to do. And I now might say something to people ahead of time so that they understand that it's not that I'm not paying attention is just, this is how I'm processing like, and I'm, it's like a tactful way to keep me present and engaged. Right. Right. And so then that's where it is that I feel like other people might want to actually do a self assessment. Right? Like, what judgments is it that you might be projecting? Because that's, it's based out of your perceived notion of what engagement looks like? Right? Right. Right, right. And so it's like when you understand that then you can be very mindful of, you know, when it is that you might go into a meeting or when it is you might be with a friend or something like that, and you think that they're totally not in there, but they actually might be. Or even with the kids, right? Like, it's just a matter of like, totally finding something to help keep them actually engaged in a way that's tempered and so ever otherwise, it'd be like, a complete space like I wouldn't even mentally be there totally not even paying attention. Because in that environment that you want me to be you want me to have like this quote, unquote, societally acceptable way of being in a meeting. Right? Like,

Betsy Furler 19:46
right, if that doesn't work for your brain

De’Nicea Hilton 19:48
at all. Right? Right. So it's like, how can you accommodate and sometimes it's, I literally have a mini container playdough that I keep in my purse, just in case I am somewhere like, our video is off, but I'm talking with my hands a lot like, with. So if I'm in a place where I'm not talking, but I'm predominantly listening in that way, then my hands can still be moving. And I'm still totally there is my hands are moving.

Betsy Furler 20:18
Yeah. So you got Yeah, you have that, you know, you know, what your brain and body needs in order to be able to focus and, and be productive and efficient and which i think i think that's so important, you know, the more interviews I do with people and, and think about all sorts of neuro diversity or just, you know, even people who don't have a diagnosis or even a, you know, who, you know, do are quote unquote typical which I don't think there is anybody, but, um, you know, we all we all think so differently, which is The beauty of our world I mean, I really believe if we could embrace everyone's differences, and all different types, that everything works so much better.

De’Nicea Hilton 21:11
Yeah. Like, I feel like if it's, if we can just realize and see that what we can all connect on, is in the diversity of thinking that diversity of creativity, like, it's almost like just as much as it is that you want somebody to, to listen and understand and accept you for you. We have to extend that to others. Hmm. And then, you know, go the extra step of actually allowing that to happen like in that space, and detaching from the outcome that you're looking for. Because that's usually where the friction comes is like, well, it's not in the package that you deemed and that you wanted, right? All right. So then that's how we can create like these boxes for people to, that we want them to live in. And really those boxes that end up being created out of one's own fear and fear of something different fear of them possibly having some type of control over you something that is there. And so we tend to create those so that we can try to manage and temper our own. But it ends up putting like other people in these boxes and then ends up, you know, coming back and then hurting you in some way along the way. But really all it is if you strip all that away is that we all really want to be, like celebrated for who we are, like, sometimes even question like, are they differences or are they actually similarities? I believe that right,

I just want to be who we are. And then that's it like,

Betsy Furler 22:50
yeah, you know, it's the reason that I hate them. I hate the term disability because I think we all have different abilities, and in one shouldn't not be less. Yeah, you know, they're just all different. And, you know, not to get too much into the, into racism and that, you know, huge topic. But I see the similarity there were it's like, you know, if we could just embrace how different every single person is. And, and, and appreciate the difference instead of trying to fit people into those boxes that you were talking about. And I do think fear makes people put people in boxes. Yeah, it's literally

De’Nicea Hilton 23:38
how you try to control something.

Betsy Furler 23:41
Right. Right. Right. Right fear and then and trying to get trying to control and trying to, you know, fear of yourself as well as fear of other people. Yeah, I think

De’Nicea Hilton 23:52
that was one of the biggest things that I will say that I learned when, like one of my favorite books and I mean that one line stuck out To me at that time, and it's still something that lingers as far as like something that I'll think about if I even personally feel like I'm trying to control something. And that was in the seven spiritual laws of success by Deepak Chopra where he that was my first coming across it, where it is control and where it is that we try to control is typically based out of fear. And so you'd have to like, you know, ask yourself, like, where is it that I'm trying to control? And then, you know, for those who might be caregivers, for those who might have all of these different abilities, right, or even the ones that might have it, it's really seeing that this is our way of being in this life. And so we all have these bits and pieces, and it's really us learning how can we use them in a way that's so that's uplifting and powerful and empowering to our own spirits. And then also how it is that we can connect to the greater consciousness and the greater humankind. And so when we might start to control these things, you know, for others, then ask yourself like, what is it that I'm actually really afraid of? Like if I have to go to these lengths to control this? What am I afraid of?

Betsy Furler 25:28
Right, right. Yes, that that's so true. So true. It has been so true in my life. You know, I've lived that personally too. So before we went out of time, you got to tell my audience about your diagnosed diagnosis. Yes.

Unknown Speaker 25:47
Did you tell people what happened with you? That's what

De’Nicea Hilton 25:51
the tangents really

Betsy Furler 25:55
are the best.

De’Nicea Hilton 25:58
Betsy, I have to tell you, there's something Else to that helped me, but I'll say a promise after the diagnosis thing. So I actually was in I had started my practice. And I ended up being fortunate enough to rent an office space, where I was actually in a psychologist office, and it was a psychologist and other mental health counselors and whatnot. And it was so funny because I'm the only one who's like out there, and I'm like, yeah, I'm doing acupuncture and herbs and all of this greatness in the midst of this office. So it was interesting, but I loved it. Because my training, the school that I chose to go to had a really heavy focus on what it's called contemporary Oriental Medicine, but the founder of the school is a classically trained psychiatrist. And so he founded it after his own apprenticeship really decade's long apprenticeship with Dr. Shin where because of his size Big practice, he just like, he's like there's something missing as far as what I've been taught to help people. And so he ended up with going in and studying as an apprentice and then basically learned all of these this different, completely different way to see the person as a whole, you know, so a lot of my training is even then with heavy like mental emotional background, and I really took to that. So I guess that's why it probably felt like home going into that office space. And talking about these things with these people. So anyways, one of them. Dr. Lauren, like, she and I were talking one day, and then she literally interjects right in the middle of conversation, nothing at all about this. She just goes, You do realize that you have ADHD, right? And

I said, you know, and I think I looked at her and I was just like, I wouldn't be surprised.

Unknown Speaker 27:56
Like it was almost like

De’Nicea Hilton 27:59
I didn't even really need that. I have a diagnosis that I could totally see it. And she's like, I mean, cuz you can really go.

You know, she's like describing my behavior and stuff, just having our regular conversations. So I thought that was like, hilarious because I was like, to me, that was my unofficial official diagnosis.

Unknown Speaker 28:20
Yes. And I love it because I think it, it really speaks to

Betsy Furler 28:27
you got a long way in school, you know, with with a no diagnosis. And when you think about how many kids out there might be and he probably didn't need the diagnosis. I mean, obviously, your mom had it under control. And you also were able to compensate and I think being able to compensate and adapt is so such a such a valuable skill. But, you know, then you think back and you're like, you know, what, if What if little disneysea in when she was eight years old, what if people would have understood this about In your brain, and what might have been different and what you know, like, and, you know, maybe it, maybe it just would have been like, you know, oh, that's why you get bored so easily. And let's just continue feeding your brain because that's what your brain needs, you know, I mean, you kind of figure that out on your own. But it does make you wonder when someone's diagnosed later in life, which I would say, over 50% of my podcast, guests have been diagnosed as adults, rather than as pets, either with ADHD or autism, and it's really, you know, it'll be interesting to see in the next 20 years what the trend is about that, but I do I also do love it. And I had told you this before we did the show, but I'll tell my listeners, I was like, I love it when things like that happen with professionals because we're all you know, like, you know, somebody will tell me they have ADHD and I'm like, a high you do? Or they'll say, Oh, yeah, I was in speech therapy, as I And I'm like, yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 30:05
So, yeah,

Betsy Furler 30:07
I think it also is like, you know, I want people to embrace all of these differences about themselves as well and not be embarrassed or ashamed to talk about it. And so I love it when people like you will come on my show and, you know, you're successful, you have this amazing career that you've got to tell us a little bit about and how people can reach you. And, and you've, you've obviously really embraced your true self and and I can tell, you know, in your spirit that that has, that's, that's what really makes you successful as embracing yourself.

De’Nicea Hilton 30:44
Thank you so much for that. Yeah. And it's where those times where I didn't think that I was and there are definitely some times that I could see where I really wasn't honoring myself in that regard. And you can see I could see the difference, you know, in things that were going on in my life. And like, I think that it's really, I think it's so important to see, you know, even with the kids now, like, where they say that they did get a diagnosis, like sometimes if I if I hadn't gotten a diagnosis like, thank goodness, I didn't Be it just based on what I've been hearing has been happening for the children like, like,

Betsy Furler 31:24
it's it's worse because then you're even more than then people are trying harder to put you in a box.

De’Nicea Hilton 31:30
Yeah. And I think like, I think the difference and how it comes out, like how it's manifested, also played a role, you know, so like, Sure, it might have taken like what they saw was, and I can see how this could be misconstrued, right? So it's like, Okay, I see that as she's diligently working and it's just taking her longer time to work. But then what really triggered their attention was quote, unquote, behavior like misbehavior, right. And so like, Had but you see was a multi factor, like my mom was like really involved and the teachers like she pushed for things for both my sister and my and myself so right, um, that is a huge difference. I think also in like if your other guests they may not have had as many behavioral issues like it seems like if they behavior isn't sit in a desk in and sit straight up, you know, like but I have been blessed to like that it came out in that way and then the times that I was behavior I wasn't like ostracized or or put in a box. I've even had some teachers that literally and this happened in grad school where she did not take offense to if you were writing or if she saw you were on the computer potentially on something else because she acknowledged that we have different ways of learning. And so the more that we can create those spaces where we don't see it, as problem, but if you just opened up more to learn more about that person, and then seeing, you know what it is that they really need, like who, right? You know, then it's if you actually pay attention, you can see it. And so then just being Welcome to that I think makes a huge difference. One of the things that did help me too is actually getting looking at my human design chart. And in very strong in my human design chart is what somebody might classify as a characteristic of having ADHD, which is like a whole bunch of ideas happening all the time at the same time or jumping around like that actually is a part of even then just that. Part of me that is is like, Oh, that's my that's my sin, my chart and this human design chart. That's pretty awesome.

Betsy Furler 33:54
And that is also something a trait that can be considered a problem when You're a child and you're sitting in a classroom, and you're not thinking about the thing you're supposed to be thinking about, right at that point, because you have so many other creative ideas, but then when you get out into the, into the real world, having all of those ideas, you know, especially when you're an entrepreneur or, you know, within, you know, trying building your own business of whatever type it is, then all of a sudden, that's like, the skill you need to have. Yeah, isn't it? It's like, how,

De’Nicea Hilton 34:30
how, like, you can throw somebody's show off when it's like, oh, Shut, shut this down, shut this down, just because you're at this age, just because it's not seen. It's not, you know, well, it's not as welcomed. Because at that time frame, what it is, is as a culture, we're saying to children, like no, you just kind of do what I say. And then instead, it's so it's kind of like squashing a bit like have that idea that creativity And then now as adults what now we got to hire people to do workshops on bringing in your creativity.

Unknown Speaker 35:05

De’Nicea Hilton 35:06
Something like that.

Betsy Furler 35:08
I say that to be an entrepreneur, I've had to unlearn so many of the skills that served me very well as a child in school. Yeah. So you know, so so how can my listeners find you if they want to connect with you?

De’Nicea Hilton 35:25
Oh, yeah, so definitely I'm connected me anybody if you would like to. You can totally see that I work with some the things that Betsy pointed out as far as embracing like, really who I am and then how it is that I can translate that into my life, but then also in business where it is that I do work with these women and helping them to come into really allowing themselves to be who they are. And sometimes we might need that guidance, to help get through those layers that we've got examples of coming from family or coming from society where we do feel like we're lost you it may not sometimes even seem like we are lost. But it might come out in ways such as I digestive issues, or anxiety or depression or menstrual cycle disorders like that kind of thing. Those are the physical things that I look for, that's letting me know, they're in herself and their higher self is not actually showing and it's screaming at them, calling your attention. And so that's where it is that I've created this, this business in a way of being able to guide women and being able to see who she is and then being confident and expressing that. So if that is you and you're like, I'm driving, I'm digging her. Totally Come on in. My website is Denise dia says D and I see EAA Hilton h l t o That's my main spot. And it's also a denisa Hilton on Facebook and LinkedIn. That's where I'm most active.

Betsy Furler 37:01
Awesome. And do you see patients via tele medicine or only in person?

De’Nicea Hilton 37:07
And do telemedicine? Definitely Yes. And I actually have completely separate programs where it's not like you would have to be a patient to quote unquote, but you can totally be a member and be someone that I consult with. So that's how I do my holistic play consulting. And I just bring in the knowledge and the skills from practicing as a doctor of oriental medicine and applying it in this way.

Betsy Furler 37:33
Awesome. Yay. So that is great information that will be in the show notes. And it has been a pleasure having you on the show today. Thank you so much for being willing to do this. Hey, thank you so much for holding the space for people like us. Yes, and to my listeners. Thank you so much for tuning in today and please share the episode please rate review, subscribe. To the podcast on whatever podcast platform you're listening to this on and I will see you all soon.